Monday, February 26, 2007

The Proper Use of "I" and "Me"

Poor English grammar bothers me. Yeah, sure, if you know me well, you know a lot of things bother me. Well, screw you... ok, just kidding. Anyway, this one seemed like such a simple fix, yet such a common error. So I thought I should write about it.

When we were in elementary school, our teachers thought it important to correct the common mistake of using the term "me" when "I" should be used in specific reference to a person or persons and the speaker. Thus, most of us correctly say things like, "John and I are going to watch football." This was such a cultural phenomena amongst elementary-school-English-teachers, that the "learned" of our day are hard pressed to use the word "me" when it is required in these situations, as if it has become a 4 letter word itself ('meee'). Alas, the error is just as egregious.

So, I intend to give a quick rundown on the proper usage of these words. The rules are quite simple. Most of you who read this are smart already, so it's probably nothing new. You can just use the discussion thread to complain about other English errors. If you didn't know, I hope this makes it clear (you can be smart and not know, too - they obviously didn't teach it very well in elementary English - I just mean that those who read this blog have a higher chance of already knowing these rules).

Essentially, to know if you are to use "I" or "me", ask yourself what sounds right if not using the other person or persons in the sentence. For example, if the sentence at hand is:

"My wife and I live in Florida."

I would take out the reference to my wife, and say:

"I live in Florida."

Well, that is very obviously the proper usage. Thus, the first sentence is correct. Let's look at another example:

"Jordan gave my wife and I a nice wedding gift."

Removing the reference to my wife again, this becomes:

"Jordan gave I a nice wedding gift."

That is obviously incorrect. Thus, the sentence should have been:

"Jordan gave my wife and me a nice wedding gift."

For those looking for a more technical distinction between the two usages, what we are looking for is whether the phrase is the subject or the object of the verb. In the first example, for instance, "My wife and I" is the subject. Thus, the usage of "I" is correct. In the second example, the verb is "gave" and the object of that verb (or, what the verb acts upon) is "my wife and me". In this case, "me" is correct.

33 Comments:

At 2/27/2007 10:24 AM, Blogger Jordan said...

Chris,

I love this post because it speaks to my heart. Your mind is a like a brilliant diamond, shining forth from a pile of dirt.

As I have probably mentioned in the past, just a few weeks of Latin was enough to vastly improve my grammar and sentence structure. There are probably other languages that would result in the same, but I think the key is that Latin forces you to be explicitly aware of: the subject, possessives, direct and indirect objects, modifiers, etc. It also helped me understand the distinction between verb types and gave me a new love for the infinitive.

What I'm trying to say is, ....

Jordan

 
At 2/27/2007 1:45 PM, Blogger Chris Hill said...

Jordan,

I'm glad I made you happy. That makes me happy, which thus takes away the sadness I expressed on your blog, which takes away your sadness. There is nothing but goodness in that.

That being said, however, the thing that sparked my desire to write this post yesterday was your older brother's blog. He improperly used "I" at one point. Being a Raney, I'm sure it was an unintentional error, and I have heard this error numerous times, so it should not be thought that this one instance caused my frustration. Besides, its (another word not used when it should be) result was this post, so it turned out to be a good thing.

Also, to assuage any appearance of passive aggressiveness, I don't know Chad that well, and his website seemed like kind of a family thing, so it didn't feel right to correct a minor grammatical error by posting there. And feelings are everything...

 
At 2/27/2007 8:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totally disagree. Who takes a one-letter words seriously anyway? It's absolutely no fun to write and even less fun to look at. I'll take my chances with "me" in any sentence thank you. Pffft.

 
At 2/28/2007 9:36 AM, Blogger Jordan said...

Chris,
I think the real problem here is your racism. Why are you such a racist?
Jordan


Also, I thought of some more:
-fewer vs. less. it is really not that hard.
-misuse of the reflexive pronoun (myself, himself, etc.). also not that hard.

 
At 2/28/2007 10:54 AM, Blogger Laura Ibsen said...

I'm troubled when people use "good" instead of "well", as in:

"Hey Howie, how are you doing?"
"Hey Ted. I'm doing good."

 
At 2/28/2007 6:11 PM, Blogger Katie Hill said...

Yeah, I use "good" inappropriately all the time. I realize I'm doing it too, which probably makes it a worse offense.

Jordan, could you give some simple rules for the usage of those words? I don't know if I'm using them correctly, and all my brain cells are gone from flying, so I don't care to thing about their proper use. Thanks.

 
At 2/28/2007 6:15 PM, Blogger Katie Hill said...

CRAP! This is Chris Hill. If it wasn't for stupid google, I would be logged in all the time. But now, since my wife has a gmail account, whenever she checks her email, I post in her name. Google sucks! I hope that pops up in a google search. Irony is amusing. In fact, here are some words to try to make the search engine link to this discussion:

Google sucks. Google is gay. Stupid Google poop crap. Google is the worst thing ever. Evil corporation. Damn Google. Google is taking over the world. The world is being taken over by Google. The one taking over the world is Google. Google sucks big time. Google sucks all day long. Search engines that are controlling. Google search engine.

P.S. I give credit for my anti-Google zeal to Jordan.

 
At 3/01/2007 10:43 AM, Blogger Laura Ibsen said...

You forgot: Google eats babies.

 
At 3/01/2007 1:22 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

You have no idea how happy it makes me that you are an anti-google zealot like me now.

Fewer/less:
"You have fewer poopstains than I do."
"You have less misery than I do."

Fewer with countable, discrete things, less with things that are not discrete.

reflexive pronoun:
When the subject and direct object of a verb refer to the same person/item.
"I shot myself" not "I shot me"
It also works to emphasize the subject: "you yourself have said it."
Person A walks in: "who is this paper for?" Person B answers: "me" not "myself"

with love,

Jordan

 
At 3/01/2007 5:24 PM, Blogger Chris Hill said...

That also reminds me of whom versus who. It works essentially the same way as the I/me rule: The object is "whom" and the subject is "who".

 
At 3/01/2007 6:23 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

Racist!

Also, it is extremely annoying that hitting tab does not bring you from the username box to the password box like it used to.

 
At 3/01/2007 10:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Stupid Google poop crap."

I'm going to remember that for a while.

Chris I think you're the only person that could get 12 comments for a post like this. Congratulations, I knew you could do it good.

 
At 3/02/2007 12:16 PM, Blogger Katie Hill said...

Jordan,
Yeah, what's up with that?

Erik,
Most of the posts are Jordan and me, but I appreciate the compliment. Perhaps you should continue the discussion by sharing common (but easily correctable) errors in Arabic. We could all get a good laugh. Like this one:

"Asaleika mues-laraha jahid."

When, obviously, it should have been:

"Asaleika mued-laraha jahid."

Duh.

 
At 3/02/2007 12:16 PM, Blogger Katie Hill said...

AHHHH!!! POOP CRAP GOOGLE!!! This is Chris Hill again.

 
At 3/03/2007 2:06 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

I have a grammar question:
Does anyone know whether group names require the singular or plural form of 'to be'? I know the British say things like, "the congress are adjourning for the day," but I think that sounds stupid and I have a feeling that this might be one of the grammar things we changed so that in American English it is, "the congress is adjourning for the day." Congress is one group...yes there are many parts, but we're not talking about them, we're talking about the singular group. Please confirm that the British are wrong.

 
At 3/03/2007 5:30 PM, Blogger Chris Hill said...

Jordan,

I think the rule is probably the same for both British and American English. I think, in your example, that the difference is that "congress" is used as a plural in the same way that we would say:

"the people are adjourning for the day"

I could be wrong - this is merely conjecture - but it's a thought.

 
At 3/03/2007 11:09 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 3/03/2007 11:14 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

Changed for clarification:

Right, but as I mentioned, what if you want to refer to the singular group rather than its members. "The Navy are going to attack Iran" doesn't sound right even though you can say "the people are going to attack Iran." I'm not talking about "the members of the Navy" but "the Navy" itself, which is a singular organization--especially since not all members of the Navy would be attacking Iran if the Navy were tasked with that job. Most people would be involved with supporting such a mission. British people also refer to bands in plural and it sounds weird: "U2 are performing this weekend."

My underlying question is: does anyone know if there is a group singular form? My only grammar training comes from prep. books for standardized tests and from third rate instruction in fifth grade.

Also, I'm proud of you for not posting as Katie!

 
At 3/04/2007 6:10 PM, Blogger Chris Hill said...

Well, I was pointing out that perhaps "congress" was accepted as a plural in British English. But I didn't know about things such as U2, etc. I know it is correct in American English to use the singular in those cases, but perhaps British English never refers to the name of a group as singular... that seems strange, though. You should do a google search.

 
At 3/05/2007 5:09 PM, Blogger renee said...

i am irritated by the continued usage of the verb "borrow" as if that is the action taken by the owner of an item. you cannot "borrow TO" anyone. certainly you are allowed to LEND TO whomever you'd like, and BORROWING FROM will be permitted, no questions asked, but i refuse to BORROW my grammatical prowess TO you under any circumstances.

silly minnesotans. this is just like the pronunciation of the word "karaoke."

 
At 3/05/2007 8:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Renee,

That is one that has brought much anger to my heart as well. Thankfully, I had good English teachers throughout my schooling (but not in college, cause I did all I could to get out of having to take college English classes... 100% successful, by the way). Thus, we may join together in our intense anger.

I'm glad to see how well everyone here has been schooled as well... haha, that's kind of funny - you've all been schooled... Anyway, l8er (the cool and very annoying way to say "later").

 
At 3/05/2007 8:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh, also, is there something about "karaoke" that I'm missing? They pronounced it in Vietnam similarly to how I've heard it here. Is it "kair-ae-oe-kae"? Is that the correction?

 
At 3/05/2007 10:39 PM, Blogger Jordan said...

"I know it is correct in American English to use the singular in those cases"

Ohhh now I understand... Thanks that's not how I interpreted your words. This has caused me indescribable relief.

Unrelated to grammar but very related to writing...I have had a few instances of trouble spelling lately. I don't know why this is... because I never used to. Is it old age? Boston air? A mystery that might never be solved.

Also, I keep intending to call you but then something keeps happening. I have a suspicion that it might be the same thing causing me to have trouble spelling. Just know that even though my calling of you has failed, I am picturing you flying jets and dropping bombs on terrorists in my head.

 
At 3/07/2007 11:09 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure about the karaoke thing either. If we borrow words from other languages should we pronounce them just like they do? Japanese doesn't really have accents...or every syllable is accented, however you want to look at it. So in Japan it sounds something like: ka-ra-oh-kay.
And instead of kaRAtee it's ka-ra-tay.

Also, I've learned whom vs who several times but I use who always.

I am sure I say all sorts of things that irritate peopple. Maybe I just did. But as long as I dont know about it that's ok.

I don't like it when people screw up further/farther or when they say "I could care less"

mark

 
At 3/07/2007 11:36 AM, Blogger Laura Ibsen said...

I think that perhaps Renee was referring to the Minnesota deal of trying to pernounce karaoke in one syllable so it comes out something like "ka-roaky". This is clearly wrong.

Also Jordan -

I know what you mean about the spelling. Lately, for some reason, I've been misspelling words that I've known to spell for many years. Dictionary.com has been a necessary reference. (I just had to look up "misspelling" to make sure it was actually a word - you can see how bad it's become.) I don't know, maybe as we get older and gain more and more knowledge, the spelling brain cells are the first ones to get culled off. So, let's take it as a sign of our ever-increasing genious. ;)

 
At 3/07/2007 11:38 AM, Blogger Laura Ibsen said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 3/07/2007 11:39 AM, Blogger Laura Ibsen said...

I meant "genius"...

Damn it.

 
At 3/07/2007 1:17 PM, Blogger renee said...

Chris, et al.

You are correct. My reference was to the mysterious phenomenon of "kuh-roh-kee" which seems to occur only in the upper midwest.

Sigh.

Jordan,

The existence of spell check has lowered the average person's need/motivation to remember words that are difficult for them. I have certain words that I am apt to misspell and when I'm uncertain, rather than taking the time to look up the word, which might motivate me to remember, I just wait to see if it gets a red squiggly line under it and then pick the correct spelling from a list, never actually typing the word correctly.

I could make a graph comparing "time it takes to determine correct spelling" on the y-axis and "likelihood of remembering the correct spelling next time" on the x-axis.

Unfortunately, I've forgotten math as well as spelling and the graphing function of my computer is considerably beyond my intellectual reach at this point.

My average comment length now exceeds my average post length on my own blog. I also could have made a graph about that were it not for my atrophying grey matter.

You can spell that color "grey" or "gray."

I'm out.

 
At 3/07/2007 7:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Renee,

Ahh, I understand. I always hear "kare-ee-oe-kee" and think it's correct. Other pronunciations sound weird to me.

And, for the record, I am in favor of spell checkers. I have spent numerous hours trying to look up the spelling of words, and it honestly doesn't help me a whole lot. If I didn't learn it in elementary school, it's just not something I'm good at. That doesn't apply for everything in life, of course, but ability to remember details is often determined by an early age. I have always had the problem of remembering details long term (and this make Navy flight school harder for me), and despite all my education, it still hasn't changed much, thus leading me to recognize that spell checkers are solely beneficial for providing efficiency, and not a useless crutch. I will concede that pre-college education must emphasize spelling tests and take points off for spelling errors (standards I had from Kindergarten through high school), but spell checkers are good... at least for me.

Mark,

I use "I could care less" but it really doesn't make sense to me. It should be "I couldn't care less."

Also, should the period at the end of my last sentence be in or out of the quotation? That always confuses me. The quotation is one "set" of words - not like quoting what someone is saying, where the rules are clear - but usually, when ending a sentence with a quotation, the punctuation is inside the quotes. Does someone know the rule?

 
At 3/08/2007 10:28 AM, Blogger renee said...

When there is a comma or a period following quoted words, the close quote is ALWAYS on the outside. (The British do it differently, but last time I checked, we won our independence.)

Exclamation points and question marks, however, should go INSIDE the quotation marks if the punctuation goes with the quote and OUTSIDE if it's related to the whole sentence.

And if you're writing in Spanish and you're using an exclamation point or question mark, you have to put the same punctuation upsidedown at the beginning of the sentence! Which is fun, because then you know you're excited from the very beginning!

Okay, I just spent a really long time looking for upsidedown exclamation points in MSWord for the above paragraph and to no avail. The blog-o-sphere is sucking my life away.

That is all.

 
At 3/08/2007 4:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Renee,

Thanks for the help. That's what I thought, but wasn't sure.

Also, I've heard that a lot of how we speak English (accent, etc.) was how the British spoke as well, and it wasn't us who changed, but it was they who did. I could be wrong, and I'm not exactly sure how we'd know, but I think it's safe to say that we're better and British accents are very annoying.

 
At 3/09/2007 11:01 AM, Blogger Laura Ibsen said...

I have to disagree with you there. British accents can be VERY sexy.

 
At 3/09/2007 11:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

They're as sexy as poop.

 

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